Joomla Version 5.4.1 und 6.0.1

    Zitat von WM-Loose

    Ja, das kann man wohl sagen. Ich habe Ihn nur auf den Artikel verwiesen und gefragt, ob er etwas plant um ein automatisiertes Backup zu implemetieren (gerne auch nur für die Pro Version).

    Die Antwort war dann doch eher etwas unter der Gürtellinie:

    Keine Ahnung was das soll.

    Er hat doch nur wiederholt, dass es für ihn nicht möglich ist. 100 Mal nachfragen bringt auch nichts.

    Für wer einen Akeeba Pro hat, sollte es genügen so wie es ist. Oder einfach kein automatisches Update einstellen.

    Oder vielleicht auch an Kubik-Rubik nachfragen. mit dem EJB Backup.

    I would like to draw everyone's attention to the following facts.

    1. The documentation page's target audience is the people who have paid for Akeeba Backup Professional, NOT all Joomla users in general. This target audience generally wants fine-grained control and tends to me more technical and attentive than the general Joomla population and especially the casual users.

    2. The way I documented automatic core updates work is in line with the magazine article Robert linked to and, most importantly the published code for the automatic core updates which is predominantly authored by him, David, and Harald.

    3. The code for this feature is public and consists of:

    A. the new com_joomlaupdate endpoints in https://github.com/joomla/joomla-…oomlaupdate/src and

    B. the Laravel application running on Joomla's servers you can find in https://github.com/joomla-projects/Automated-Updates-Server

    Let me address the inaccuracies first.

    I said that there is no plugin event before running the updates. This came from an older reply, given around Joomla 6.0 beta 2 was released, and before I had the chance to go through all of the changes made between beta 1 and beta 2. While this was true before beta 2, the fact is that there is now an event, onJoomlaBeforeUpdate, added into Joomla in late August, between beta 1 and beta 2. However, as the rest of that paragraph goes this is not very useful because "running a backup usually takes longer than a single page load. The backup needs to run over the course of several page loads to complete. For this reason, you need to explicitly take a backup before updating your site". This is still true.

    The second inaccuracy is the following statement: "You accidentally left your Update Source to Joomla Next and there's a new major version? It will be installed, even if it breaks your site". This is not the case, at least for now. Automatic core updates will not install new major versions of Joomla.

    I also said the following, which in retrospect was pretty dumb: "If you are using the Joomla! command line interface (CLI) to run an update with php /path/to/site/cli/joomla.php core:update you have the same problem. It does not have a provision to run any third party code before the update. You have to explicitly take a backup with php /path/to/site/cli/joomla.php akeeba:backup:take before running the core:update command to update Joomla itself". Technically, since we are under CLI and therefore not subject to the web server limitations, I could run a backup using the onJoomlaBeforeUpdate event handler, albeit you'd have to declare which backup profile to use ahead of time – which you already do in the Backup On Update plugin. This is something I will add to my to-do list, for sure. The only downside will be that it will have to be a plugin option which makes it harder to disable when you are doing a CLI core update. Well, anyway.

    Again, the core of what I wrote remains true:

    1. Joomla's automatic updates do not run on your site; they run using a service hosted on Joomla's infrastructure, namely https://autoupdate.joomla.org as we can see in the \Joomla\Component\Joomlaupdate\Administrator\Model\UpdateModel::AUTOUPDATE_URL constant and the \Joomla\Component\Joomlaupdate\Administrator\Model\UpdateModel::changeAutoUpdateRegistration() method. The magazine article explicitly states this: "The endpoints in the individual site are implemented using the Joomla webservices system: new endpoints have been added for com_joomlaupdate. The infrastructure on joomla.org is mainly a custom application which of course is open source too. The infrastructure on joomla.org is mainly a custom application which of course is open source too". This is copied verbatim from "Under The Hood". I can't see there being a misunderstanding about this, it's very clear cut.

    2. You do not control when an update will be installed on a site. To be very clear about this, I am talking about the date and time the update will be installed. People generally don't want updates to be installed when they are asleep, actively using their site, or out of office. I can now see how this could be misconstrued as me talking about whether an update will be installed at all, or delayed unreasonably, which is not the case.

    3. You do not control whether an update will be installed on a site. To be very clear about this, I am talking about deferring an update until you are ready to install it, presumably after testing on a dev site or another less important site that nothing breaks. You CAN disable automatic updates and then re-enable them when you are ready, but at this point you are in your site's backend so you might just as well run the update yourself. Again, I can now see how this wording can be misconstrued as me saying that updates may not be installed, which is not the case.

    4. You cannot have an automatic backup before the automatic update. This would require an integration with Akeeba Backup Professional's JSON API which is not the case with Joomla's update service. I am unsure if someone misconstrued this as me whining about Joomla not integrating with Akeeba Backup, which is not the case; I am saying quite the opposite! Joomla's automatic core update service has no business providing this integration. A service provided by Joomla MUST NOT tie into a third party extension or service, let alone one which requires you to pay to use it. I would NEVER accept anything else. It's Joomla, not some kind of "Akeeba CMS", for Christ's sake!

    The automatic core update service DOES have a reason for existence, and I explicitly mention it in my documentation. There are so many sites out there with nobody doing automatic or manual updates to them. This leaves them vulnerable to known security issues which have been fixed a long time ago by the Joomla project. These sites get hacked. It both reflects badly on Joomla, and turns their owners away from Joomla. Having an opt-in automatic update service which addresses this problem is a GREAT thing. I have been saying for 16 years that automatic updates are a good thing, as long as they are opt-in. If you want a short phrase to parrot, here you go: "Opt-in automatic core Joomla updates good. Opt-out automatic WordPress updates bad".

    As I said, I write documentation for my product, therefore my clients. My clients are not the people who will leave a site without updates. They do install updates, and do want automatic updates before doing so. When I say "You should NOT use Joomla's automatic updates" I am talking to MY CLIENTS ONLY, not every Joomla user in general. I thought that was self-understood. Apparently, this is not the case, seeing people's reaction here. Okay, I will have to rewrite that documentation page to make it clear who I am talking to.

    Regarding my response to Dirk, he asked me if I am aware of the magazine article, after I had already sent him the link to the documentation. Let me explain something. In English, when you ask someone "are you aware of X" the implication is that you think they are too stupid to know X exists. This is a very offensive thing to say. Moreover, he never once told me that he was conveying someone else's words. He presented it as his own words.

    Between these two key facts, I got offended and basically told him to show me the code if he things he understands the code better than me. Once he explained what was going on, I apologised to him.

    Finally, I would like to remind anyone that I am a VERY direct person. I do not do subtext. kthxbye

    Dear Nicolas,

    thanks and a great welcome to the German Joomla Support Forum. Thank you for checking in on the topic and checking the plugin event mentiond for the auto updates (Github PR). As for the personal stuff i would like to mention that noone other the involved parties can help to solve this topic. Thefore I will close this topic here and I'm sure all involved partys will find a way to reach each other.

    Thanks
    Tobias

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    Lieber Nicolas,

    vielen Dank und herzlich Willkommen im deutschen Joomla-Supportforum. Danke, dass du dich in diesem Thema gemeldet und das Pluginevent für die automatischen Updates überprüftst (Github PR). Was die persönlichen Angelegenheiten angeht, möchte ich darauf hinweisen, dass niemand außer den beteiligten Parteien zur Lösung dieses Problems beitragen kann. Daher werde ich dieses Thema hier schließen und bin mir sicher, dass alle Beteiligten einen Weg finden werden, sich miteinander in Verbindung zu setzen.

    Vielen Dank
    Tobias

    Hi,

    a quick update from our end. After double checking within the forum team we decided to unpublish the statements done by Robert and David as well as Nicolas which are focused on the personal stuff. And we hope that they will find a solution offline of this forum.

    The technical comments regarding the original questions and topics will stay as they are.

    Thanks

    ---

    Hallo,

    ein kurzes Update von uns. Nach einer erneuten Überprüfung innerhalb des Forum-Teams haben wir beschlossen, die Aussagen von Robert, David und Nicolas, die sich auf persönliche Angelegenheiten zwischen den dreien beziehen, zu entfernen. Wir hoffen, dass sie außerhalb dieses Forums eine Lösung finden werden.

    Die technischen Kommentare zu den ursprünglichen Fragen und Themen bleiben unverändert.
    Vielen Dank